Before I get going with this, I'd like to give a little background into why I'm ranting about anime.
I've been thinking about the use of terms like manga and anime in English ever since I wrote about manga and comics a few weeks back.
As much as I think the term "manga" is misused, I think the use of "anime" is just as bad, if not worse. “Anime” in English has come to refer to a specific type of mass produced semi-animated cartoons that in no way reflects what real Japanese animators are capable of.
Boiled down to it’s basics, the term anime was adopted into the Japanese vernacular simply to differentiate manga you read on paper from manga you watch on a TV or movie screen because a word for animation didn’t exist. That’s all it is and anything that the word anime may imply now was made up by after.
First of all, "manga" in Japanese does not mean "comic", at least not by the Will Eisner "sequential art" definition, or other definitions like “graphic narrative”, etc. "Manga" includes comics, but has a much broader meaning that can refer to everything from single panel comics to graphic novels and even animation, which is one of a number of reasons I don't call Japanese comics manga in English. In fact nearly any cartoon or illustration could be called manga. Art for entertainment and fun is “manga”. It's nothing more, nothing less, and nothing culturally specific except that which has been added in more modern interpretations of the term.
Using that broad definition, manga actually does mean everything the hardcore fans, both foreign and Japanese, say it does - including the when they link manga historically to the Chōjū jinbutsu giga, which fans love to trace manga’s origins to show how unique it is. However, although “manga” does have a long history in Japan, the modern comics they are talking about when they say “manga” have nothing to do with any of that. If you broaden definitions enough, hieroglyphics were the first graphic novels, weren't they? If that's the case, then what’s so special about manga that doesn’t go for comics, too?
My point is, if you argue the broader interpretation of the word manga, you cannot then turn around and compare that to a narrower definition of western superhero comics. That's like comparing apples to avocadoes. They are both roundish shaped fruits, but that's where the similarities end.
On the contrary, if you want to use the broad definition of manga so you can tie in all kinds of nice historical things, then you have no choice but to include all types of comics and cartoons into your definition because the word “manga” doesn't differentiate. Some may want to argue that manga means only Japanese-style, but then I would ask what your definition of “Japanese style” is. Modern Japanese comics and animation are the evolution of a style Tezuka Osamu pioneered, which was influenced heavily by Disney and has nothing to do with woodblock prints from the 18th century.
Hokusai has about as much to do with Astro Boy as Grant Wood does with the Fantastic Four.
The narrower English interpretations of “manga”, “anime”, and any number of related terms that people throw around, I think are insulting to Japanese creators because it implies that they are the equivalent of formula hacks who can only copy and work from inside one of a few tightly defined boxes. To really see what Japan can do, you need to quit being mesmerized by the big shiny displays thrown up by the marketing machines (something Japan has definitely mastered!) and take a peek behind the curtain. There’s some pretty amazing stuff here, but little of it ever gets recognized.
Worse than the use of words like anime and manga, are the common category terms. Some of those terms that have no business being used by anyone who would agree that Japanese society is wrong for continuing to openly marginalize and demean women, doing little to protect innocent children from sexual predators, and giving homosexuals no rights other than to provide entertainment by parading flamboyantly around on television like traveling circus performers.
I’m talking about shonen-ai, yaoi, yuri, lolicon, hentai and all those other words non-Japanese toss around as if they didn’t really mean what they mean. I don't see anyone writing about those things using their English equivalents. I wonder why?
Seriously, I want to know why the hell some things are okay only if referred to in Japanese! I wonder if people even really know what they are talking about, or if they would talk about that stuff in English outside their fan communities. Do any of you self-proclaimed otaku have any idea what that really means in Japan and the stigma that’s attached to it?
But that’s a whole other topic…
I think it’s the misuse of the larger terms like manga and anime that leads to insular communities using all kind of foreign terms like kids using secret codes in a tree house and they end up totally detached from reality without even noticing. That image is getting attached to everything out of Japan and it’s a shame, for both Japan and the normal fans of Japanese entertainment.
Maybe things like the recognition that Hayao Miyazaki and studio Ghibli are (finally!) getting, and Kunio Kato’s Oscar win will start to help change that and open up doors for other creators, and minds as to what Japan is really about. At least I hope so, because it's about time we all stopped letting people who think pouring teriyaki sauce on chicken makes it Japanese, and cartoons about little girls seducing their teachers is normal after-school entertainment, from deciding what is representative of Japan and what isn’t.
Aside from the image, the stuff that most call “anime” is the animation industry equivalent of "motion comics" anyway. I wouldn't dream of insulting a real animator by slapping an "anime" label on them, and basically dooming their work to comparisons with that the market pulp cartoons just because it’s Japanese.
Most “anime” is barely animated at all. It’s all key frames with few inbetweens and absolute minimum FPS. If you aren’t familiar with the terminology, key frames are the starting and ending points for a given movement or transition. Inbetweens are just that; intermediate frames in between the key frames that illustrate motion. Obviously the more inbetweens and FPS you have the more fluid and detailed the movement will be.
With only minimal inbetweens and low FPS, you literally end up cutting from one static pose to another in a given sequence. Sound familiar? Well, it should because that’s what happens in comic books from panel to panel in a given sequence, isn’t it?
Pop Anime pans, zooms, and tricks your eyes with backgrounds, but there is very little actual animation going on. The Ken Burns Effect could just as easily be called the Tezuka effect because of the way Tezuka gave a feeling of movement to static images. Modern anime also uses "dramatic slow-mo" incessantly along with other style elements that have become characteristic. Those elements are ingenious little short cuts to convey something in the easiest and most inexpensive way possible.
On the production side of anime, they've cut so many corners over the years that they now have a perfectly rounded cartoon machine that rolls out the same stuff over and over again in different packaging to suckers who don't demand more, and so the companies don't deliver more.
Finally different things like The World of GOLDEN EGGS are starting to catch on here, I think because people are getting bored.
Crayon Shin-chan's initial impact was partly to do the fact that it broke all the established style rules, but that turned out to be an exception and subsequent cartoon reverted to the tried and true.
Recently, though, we are finally seeing more and more different things in Japan. Sadly, little of it makes it big and even less makes it out of the country.
“Anime” outside of Japan has become a parody of itself, and comparing what people think anime is to other animation and cartoons is an insult to the .
The only major difference between anime and motion comics is that dialogue is performed like an audio book so you don’t have to read it on screen. That's an “audio motion comic” to me, albeit a very sophisticated and cool form of motion comic that you can enjoy looking at because you don’t have to read it.
In fact I would go so far as to say that Osamu Tezuka had little to do with animation in the end, but was a brilliant comic artist who pioneered motion comics in the 1960's. The cost effective production method Tezuka invented was genius. I’m sure he also intended to graduate from that limited animation into full-blown animation once the industry got the cash and people got the experience they needed. But the style he created stuck and companies just kept the profits and pumped out more and more visual instant ramen for the insatiable appetites of the 70’s and 80’s cartoon boom.
These cheap mass-market, straight from comic book pages to the small screen, excuses for animation became the staple. That’s great for the companies because they get to keep costs down, but decades of that has retarded the development of animation as a whole to the point where real animation houses, with notable exceptions like Ghibli, and the actual animators are minor players fighting to keep their heads above water.
Some "anime" is great entertainment. Some of it is true art.
But it's more high budget motion comic than it is real animation. As far the art of animation goes, pop anime it's low budget and bottom of the barrel.
I'm not suggesting people actually start calling it motion comics, but it’s not fair make typical "anime" representative of the Japanese industry as a whole. Japan is on far too high a level and capable of so much more than that.
If I wrote that Cartoon Network’s flash animation was representative of American animation in general, I'm sure more than a few people would beg to differ on that. I think the same respect should be afforded Japan because they do some pretty damn amazing stuff if you can find through the smoke and mirrors of the big anime machine.
I think "anime" is just a clever method of avoiding animation and getting away with it. But they make the world's coolest motion comics!
Now it's time to finish my post on the TAF 2009 Creator's World.
If I'm going to insist people check out other Japanese animation, the least I can do is help introduce a few, right?.
I'm working on it...
16 comments
I myself learned several things from it. But that's not what I wanted to write about as a comment.
You know like 5 years ago I watched a "motion comic" (haha!) by Mamoru Oshii, called "Angel's egg". At that time this thing was different from the other japanese stuff I've watched and read. Not as art style, but more as a story, as an impression it left on me.
In the next months I've found several (yeah, jusr two-three) persons in my country who have watched it. And the discussion which that (anime) awoke between us was something never seen before. Anyway, Oshii's work from 1985 was different from the other japanese cartoons we've watched in the manner every single one of us understood and iterpreted it. Really it was a moral open-endeed story about whatever comes in my and everyone's mind. Since than i understood what "manga" is for me.
But for that a little later in my comment.
Nowadays the terms "manga" and "anime" have the same meaning, whether you like it or not. They mean "PRODUCT". In the 21st century (boys :)) world the society is mostly consuming than creating something.
So, animation, comics, pop culture - it's part of it as well. I do not angry anymore on that fact, because in order to get along with people around you (even the closest ones) you have to cope with that. That of course doesn't mean that you can't try to change it somehow (if that's even possible). But to change it you have to be msot inventive and creative. Imagination (as well as stupidness) is borderless. So, I think that the only way to change whatever you wish to change is (the best known, used and successful way) imagination. Yes, your own imagination. It's because of it we still can find good music, good paintings, good movies, good manga, etc. It's pouring out of someones imagination, and that's genious. That's what Urasawa for example does for me. Really.
Before I used to call myself "otaku", but in time i did understand what that really does mean. It's something which I definately didn't want to become...
Otaku in some way means lonely (for me at least). This is something which can be for some people blessing, for others - curse. For me is both. But as it is said in "Monster" - "people can be wahtever they want to be." So I realized it's better to be a changing person. You know, only fools don't change their opinion. It's been a long time since I don't watch "anime". Yeah, from time to time I read manga (several fav. authors), but that's all.
Years ago when I started to like all the japanese culture and history and all I like and was interested in it all. Then I shutted myself only to anime and manga - no, it wasn't right.
Most of the "anime" and "manga" comes to BG through i-net, and the main source in i-net is U.S.A. Japan can't be becuase of the language barrier. Too few people here know japanese and nawadays it's still the same. But the reason for that is another topic.
So, we see the work of the japanese mangakas and directors and companies interpreted. That's not cool at all. That's why i read this blog and several other sites about Japan. The word industry doesn't mean evolution anymore.
About the thing I started with - "Angel's egg". This work led me to watch other brilliant works like "Mindgame" and others, which led me to Urasawa and other artists. I want to say that it's very true to say that in order to understand really soemthing you have to get to its roots. And that isn't something easy to do. But when you get to the roots, you can "drink" directly from them and be somewhat enlightened.
There is a message in every artwork and so is with manga too. My quality (I think) is to draw a lesson from each story, from every character. Everyone can do that - art is a mirror of the real life. You can't just use it as a product.
So, after all - people change, their opinion about things change. Why can't the understanding of japanese culture change?
- Yancho
P.S. My thoughts are rather in a mess, I woke up today with a headacke - I shouldn't have read 21st Century boys last night >_>
I really agree with what you said. I think the words in English or used in the english language are the ones that discriminate cause people really doesn't know squad about japanese comic or animation. If you say manga in Japan people really understand what it means in it's full meaning but when you say it in english people look and you and shout "Naruto!" The same happens with anime and unless more people read posts like this it will continue to happen. The only good thing i can say is maybe people don't know shit of what they are talking but at least they don't do it on purpose and maybe they would like to learn more about their favourite art...
That's it for now, eagerly waiting for your next post
take care
-Santi-
2.
"I’m talking about shonen-ai, yaoi, yuri, lolicon, hentai and all those other words non-Japanese toss around as if they didn’t really mean what they mean. I don't see anyone writing about those things using their English equivalents. I wonder why?
Seriously, I want to know why the hell some things are okay only if referred to in Japanese! I wonder if people even really know what they are talking about, or if they would talk about that stuff in English outside their fan communities. Do any of you self-proclaimed otaku have any idea what that really means in Japan and the stigma that’s attached to it?
But that’s a whole other topic…"
I wrote a post where I referred to the lot of it as "porn" and then did my best to defend it on those terms:
http://www.rocketbomber.com/2009/01/10/5by8-29-the-blind-men-and-the-elephant-in-the-room
I know that post is going to come back and bite me on the ass one of these days but dammit, I stand by what I wrote.
2 1/2: when I call myself an otaku I know exactly what it means, (I'm 35, single, no social life -- but I have thousands of dollars worth of stuff) and find perverse pleasure in appropriating the term and reveling in the absolute squalor of it. There is a line, though: I rather dislike "Welcome to the NHK" because it strikes a little too close to home...
1. I think you're needlessly obfuscating the issues you've raised here by harping on semantics like whether or not we should use the term "anime" or "manga" and whether or not animation that has low FPS can be called animation at all. These terms have been in use for a few decades, I see no reason to change them now.
2. "Manga" and "anime" simply mean animation and comics from Japan. That encompasses a huge range of styles and genres. I think it's silly to claim that such neutral words could possibly be demeaning to Japanese animators.
3. I think it's a huge leap in logic to say that somebody who uses a word like "yuri" is therefore either misinformed or ignorant of gay issues in Japan. If anything, few yuri and yaoi titles are even remotely related to real gay life and using those terms allows for easy and precise communication. It's just entertainment... and if you have a problem with that, I can understand but again I think taking it out on the words themselves or on the fans for using them is just muddying the waters.
However I do agree with you on some things like the huge level of mediocre to downright terrible stuff that the animation industry churns out and what you wrote about animation and cost-cutting was quite informative (although I think you're exaggerating when you say it's little more than a motion comic). However of course I'm certainly no expert on the subject, and much of what I've learned merely comes from the internet itself like what's written over at AniPages Daily (http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/).
Thanks very much for your thoughts. I was amazed by Japanese cartoons when I was a kid and I didn’t even know they were from Japan. Naturally, when I found out I started looking for more.
But, especially after working in the industry here, I can't stand the fact that they still produce such cheap animation based on all the same old techniques and tell us it's "their style" and tell us about the quality of their animation. They stopped inventing, but continued to cut corners, and I think it's getting very old and boring at the same time as many are just discovering it and thinking it's so cool.
To me, that's a rip off and it's not good animation. As much as some of it might still have good stories and be fun, as animation it is total crap and hearing people still praising it is hard to understand for me.
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Santi,
Yes, I agree with you that a big part of the problem is that people really don't know what they are talking about. They make up their own meanings and create interpretations that don't exist.
In fairness, a lot of newer fans are just enthusiastic for the cool new thing they discovered and a lot will settle down after a while.
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Matt,
Thanks. Seeing the industry up close changed a lot of what I think about animation in general, but especially about mass produced 2D out of Japan.
As far as the terms go, you are one of the few that say it like it is. I really respect that. I also have no problem with porn, but I think many hide behind the foreign terms and pretend it's something different than it is. Honest talk about something I have no problem with. I haven't read your post yet, but I will - thanks for the link.
I do draw my personal line where kids are involved, though. I think everyone knows what lolicon and shonen means.
Gay stuff doesn't interest me, but I have no problem with it either. however the stuff out of japan is stereotype fetish just. I just want people to tell it like it is.
Speaking of telling it like it is; you are definitely using "otaku" differently from the kids who think it means anime/manga fan.
I haven't seen or read Welcome to the NHK, but I've heard about it. Honestly, living in Japan makes that subject matter a little too scary for me because it's a real problem here. I don't know you, but disliking that comic for whatever reason says good things about you to me. It's the people that enjoy it that I worry about, of which Japan has way too many.
Thanks for your thoughts, and I will read your post
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Lbrevis,
Sorry your reply got eaten, I would have liked to have read the complete version. I didn't know the spam filter would do that. I'll look into that. Thanks for letting me know.
About your points;
1. You're right about me harping a little, but it's partly because I worked in animation. It pisses me off to see shitty animation praised as world class or state of the art while the really amazing stuff is ignored. The stuff I'm calling crap animation may have great stories, cool designs and be extremely entertaining. But as animation goes most of it is shit.
2. As for terminology, I'm reacting to the Japan-geeks who blindly worship everything Japan vomits out and then start acting like they know everything about it and know about Japan. They also sound like the first generation, snobby Japanese otaku who denied all links to foreign influence and insisted that everything Japanese was vastly superior to anything else. It's annoying enough to hear hardcore Japanese fans talk like that, but when foreign fans do it, it's much worse.
If "anime" really meant animation from Japan, and "manga" simply meant comics from Japan, I would have no problem with the terms in English. But for some reason the terms are coming to mean all kind of things that I think are bullcrap. As I mentioned, I'm not seriously suggesting people call anime "motion comics", and I know the word manga isn't going anywhere. I'm stirring the pot to hopefully get some talk going and get feedback like yours to balance things out, because I know some of my stances on thing can be a little extreme, too.
3. I have no problem with entertainment, but I do have a problem with anything to do with depicting children in sexual situations - especially for entertainment purposes. i.e. "lolicon" and "shonen-ai".
I don't think there is any excuse for that, whether it's graphic or not, but especially if it's graphic. I consider myself pretty damn liberal when it comes to most issues, but I want painful death for sexual predators who target children. And people who enjoy watching children in sexual situations are only a step away and either need to seriously consider what the hell is wrong with themselves and do something about it, or commit suicide so they can never, ever even try to make their fantasies real.
As for yaoi and yuri, I have no problem with it really, and you are right that they nothing to do with real gay life. I was questioning why people are legitimizing a genre based on stereotypes and fetish. Yaoi is for "girls by girls", which is fine, but I wonder what many of those female readers think about male oriented girl-on girl stuff, or what actual gay people think about it.
I've also heard people talk about how open Japan is because manga touches on all subjects, but the fact is that it's all about stereotypes. I want people to know a little more about society here before they offer misplaced praise.
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I've also been mixing the animes I watch from old to new and different studios and well, after watching a show like code geass and then watch akira, I had to blink a few times to get used to all the animation that akira had. Evey fold on the characters where moving with every movement and the movements werent saved cycles. (I havent worked in animation, only took 2 classes and found out that I like making comics more). Its a sad thing for such quality to pushed aside because its not 'cheap' and 'quick' enough.
I"m not so upset with the cut corners cause its not like the target audience has much of attention span for things. I still belive that with all the crap they say that fan subs killed the anime market, well when you target your stuff to the lowest denominator (and its not being shown freely on tv) they are the people that wouldnt buy it cause they dont care about the art.
As for us who do care for the art, we wont consider cheap knock offs as art and wont buy it ( nor watch it. I havent have an anime that I care to watch right now and many of my friends dont watch anime right now).
you end up with something that gets worst and eventually gos 'poof' , unless change comes or there's a reborn
As for the whole lolicon thing, I too find it very distasteful. Still I have to say that I'm with Neil Gaiman on this one and I'll quote him on it, "If you accept -- and I do -- that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible." Which is to say that I might not like loli but I'm not going to support throwing someone in jail for thought crime or for owning loli manga. If, on the other hand, somebody takes their 2D fantasies into the real world and harms a kid that's an entirely different, horrible matter... and at that point we can get out the thumbscrews and water boards.
"I've also heard people talk about how open Japan is because manga touches on all subjects, but the fact is that it's all about stereotypes. I want people to know a little more about society here before they offer misplaced praise."
True, I agree with you there. There are some manga that do portray gays in at least a somewhat realistic light, though. Fumi Yoshinaga's "Antique Bakery" not only uses the word "gay" (something I believe most in the genre shy away from) but gives one of the characters a realistic backstory about his coming out. Or "Honey & Honey" which is written by a l.esbian and is a pretty realistic if optimistic slice-of-life portrayal of the gay/bi/transexual community in Japan. Still, I guess they're like needles in a haystack.
I look forward to seeing your next post as I am interested in what animation you do like. For instance to my untrained eye I really thought Dennou Coil was a step above for its realistic, fluid character animation especially when the kids are running around. Or Sword of the Stranger for its action scenes, although admittedly as a movie it had a bigger budget. Any thoughts on those or on other anime you thought had good animation?
Sorry for the long reply, brevity is not my strong suit. Oh and the word the spam filter was catching was l.esbian which as you can see I can't even type correctly. Strange since it doesn't mind gay.
It took me a while to really see animation, too. I think I probably look too hard now becasue I had harsh words for even Ghibli once. Tales from Earthsea was a piece of crap in every way except the theme song and one of the movie posters (the Hayao Miyazaki designed). I was especially disappointed at the animation. For Ghibli is was shockingly bad.
Anyway, I get upset about the industry sometimes because I know what Japan can really do and I hate to see them beat their chests in pride over stuff that isn't really that good.
Funny you should mention Neil Gaiman. I read the post you are quoting and have a lot of mixed feeling about it. I was going to blog/rant about that, but I wouldn't what to be seen as attacking Neil Gaiman because I have the utmost respect for him.
I respect that opinion, but at the same time I would be a hypocrite to say I truly feel the same way. I know that if, for example, my kid's future teacher (my kid is still a toddler) were found to have a stash of lolicon or similar stuff, I'm going on a rampage if that teacher isn't out the door immediately and, at the very least, never allowed to teach or work with children again as long as they live. The criminal issue is tough, but I have trouble with the legal distinction between really and imaginary stuff, because I think they both feed the same kind of mentality. I do recognize there is a dangerous gray area when it comes to serious work that is also graphic, like Alan Moore's "Lost Girls" (although i would question whether or not some thing really had to be shown).
Anyway, it's really hard for me to be to be open-minded on that particular subject.
I haven't seen Dennou Coil, but I'll check it out.
Thanks.
I'm tweaking the spam filter here, too. Thanks for letting me know. It only doesn't catch "gay" because I removed that word from the blacklist a while. It's a work in progress.
Btw, I appreciate the comments. Make them as long as you want!
Cheers.
For that matter, isn't "lolicon" short for "Lolita complex"? It's like when Japanese speakers borrowed the word "drama" from English, some pronounced it "dorama," and now you see English speakers insisting that live-action drama from Japan be called "dorama" instead of "drama" when the rest of the sentence is in English. o_O
"True, I agree with you there. There are some manga that do portray gays in at least a somewhat realistic light, though. Fumi Yoshinaga's "Antique Bakery" not only uses the word "gay" (something I believe most in the genre shy away from) but gives one of the characters a realistic backstory about his coming out. Or "Honey & Honey" which is written by a l.esbian and is a pretty realistic if optimistic slice-of-life portrayal of the gay/bi/transexual community in Japan. Still, I guess they're like needles in a haystack."
Also see these:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=15332
"Both of the men act like men. Not only that, but they act gay (I don't mean stereotypical), know they're gay, and refer to themselves as gay. (This is rare, trust me.)"
http://www.popcultureshock.com/manga/index.php/features/manga-recon-yaoi-con-2008/
"'most of us live far apart and feel isolated from our families and coworkers because of our taste in manga'. Awwww.
"Somehow, after actually being rejected by friends and family for who I am, that’s really kind of laughable. I don’t actually feel isolated from others b/c I can’t confide about my pornographic preferences. I think you’re kind of alone on that one."
Meanwhile, I thought "comics" does include single panel editorial cartoons and graphic novels, instead of just "sequential art in monthly floppies."
Thanks very much for your comments and sorry I haven't had time to respond properly.
I'm not 100% sure not if editorial cartoons are "comics" by definition or not (I think they are usually just referred to as cartoons) - but I bet there are a few different definitions and even more opinions on the subject.
Graphic novels are sequential art and are comics, I just meant to say that manga has an even broader definition in Japanese. Graphic novel is just a more adult sounding name for comics, imo, probably invented to shake the stigma that comics are for kids for the sake of the adults who read them.
I don't think graphic novel sounds more adult at all, though. It sounds like a fancy way of saying "picture book".
I'll stick with "comics" :)
P.S. I have zero sympathy for anyone who feels like an outcast for their tastes in anything, especially fetish comics. The only reason I think anyone feels truly isolated is probably because of a sense of shame - otherwise why would they care? Somewhere they probably feel it's somehow wrong but they can't help it, or just won't.
Or, even worse, they have that special kind of self-centeredness that allows them whine about isolation because they are into things that repulse other people to the point that they don’t want anything to do with you.
That is why so may of the real hardcore "otaku" in Japan are truly weird and sometimes sick individuals. They don't complain, though, they just drift further and further away from society and sink deeper and deeper into their fantasy worlds. We only find out about them if and when they crack and hurt themselves or other people.
It's truly scary!
1)Anime and Manga are PLENTY cultural specific. Sure there are foriegn influences but why is it one or the other? It HAS foriegn influences but has MORE local influences. This is fairly obvious. We as americans CANNOT claim that anime is as american as it is Japanese. Come on let's show some respect avoid co-opting another people's culture and give THEM credit for their OWN HERITAGE. It is theires not ours. We are fortunate they are sharing it with us but let's not abuse the privilege.
2)Hokusai has PLENTY to do with Tezuka. Are you kidding me? From the compositions to the line quality to the symbolism and even the treatment of human forms in Tezuka and seminal anime...it all harkens back to the Japanese aesthetics exemplified in traditional Japanese graphic media. Please research this. To say anime exisits in an aeshetic vacum from its OWN cultural counterparts is well...ABSURD
3)You have greatly oversimplified the aesthetics and production methodology of animation. Most anime of the original classic and modern era have tons of inbetweens and features fluid animation and beautifully timed sequences that exemplify great animation. The difference is that anime unlike Disney intergrates the graphic elements of HOKUSAI and other cuturally specific artists. Therefore they have no problem panning and cutting between still images for one scene then switching to amazingly elaborate frame by frame character animation. This creates a complimentary effect and visual momentum through contrast spacing and timing...much like a musical arrangement. NO ONE can label the lush frame by frame animation on display when a mecha tranforms from vehicular to robot modes while the camera is doing a 360% rotation around it as "motion comics".Are you kidding me? Look at the Macross Saga and you will find PLENTY of 12 to 24 fps sequences in TANDEM with lots of still images. They mix it up. It's an aesthetic thing and a cultural thing. In japan animation was not developed as an extention of photography and filmmaking like in the states. It was developed as a progression of their culture's heritage of graphic art and illustration. So they do not see the presentation of a still image onscreen as "not being animation". That is a purely occidental way of seeing things (though many westerners are not biased in this way). Yeah it can save money to but that is a by product of the original creation of a culturally specific Aesthetic. Often cretivity costs LESS money than being technical. A timeless oil painting can cost little money and consist of one image. A crappy feature film can run millions and is made of countless elements. Lets not judge a things merits by it's budget or quantity. Let's look at the quality. I would rather a beautifull rendered still drawing on-screen than 24fps of crappy drawing/tracing.
4)Please know your history. Before they retained Tezuka Toei Animation produced 6 animated features in the 24 fps Disney style. This was how they BEGAN. They started with the "know how" to do Disney-like animation. The films were beautiful but they did not connect with Asian audiences enough. They were not culturally specific enough. So they consciously created the new aesthetics of classic and modern anime to suit their cultural needs AFTER they created Disney-like films.
Your insinuation that Tezuka's toei catalog looked the way it did as a result of a failed attempt to look like american animation due to their limitations as inferior inexperienced animators is really insulting. I know it is hard to imagine...but americans do not dictate the aesthetics of everyone in the world. Sometimes people do things differently than us becuse they choose to speak in their own voice...not because they are not "quite as good as us yet".
You like Miyazaki because his features embrace a few Disneyesue methodologies. I think Miyazaki is cool to. But I am open to ALL the styles of anime. Not just the ones that remind me of amerian animation. And for the record ...for every one Disney-like thing Miyazaki does he does 10 cuturally specific "Anime" things.
4)If you want to see motion comics please peep the Cartoon Network Adult Swim line up. Take a look at Aqua Teen Hunger Force or even the Street Fighter and Voltron motion comics by Eagle Eye Media. But do not use this stuff in the same sentence as the Original Astro Boy or the AMAZING stuff from Toei and Tatsunoko in the 70's and 80's. And for the record I think motion comics are cool to. It is just not an accurate description of anime especially when you are using it to berate the medium (which you obviously are).
CAn we enjoy a thing on its own merits without judgement?
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write your opinions.
I respect the fact that you disagree but calling Ghibli “Disney-like”!? Whoa!! You got me all wrong on that point, but I’ll get back to that…
My rant – and I state this in it! – was against the industry at large and some of the shit that people accept as being representative of Japanese animation when there is so much more out there. I also do state that some “anime” (I mean the mass produced stuff) is true art, so why you think I’m taking a giant dump on all of Japan is beyond me.
Perhaps you only remember the things I wrote that you didn’t like?
One of my closing statements is this:
“I'm not suggesting people actually start calling it motion comics, but it’s not fair to make typical "anime" representative of the Japanese industry as a whole. Japan is on far too high a level and capable of so much more than that.”
That's praise if I've ever heard it.
I would also like to point out another of my closing statements:
“If I wrote that Cartoon Network’s flash animation was representative of American animation in general, I'm sure more than a few people would beg to differ on that.”
So - and please excuse my bluntness - but give me a break with telling me to take a peek at Cartoon Network! I know all about Cartoon Networks’ animation! -- And Voltron - all Voltron cartoons!! - has always been shit to sell toys. Believe me, I am under no illusions that American cartoons are currently any better. The best 2D animation is not coming out of big American studios.
Yes, I am berating the anime industry, but I am not berating the medium per se, except to say that a lot of it not good 'animation' - they are moving manga. If fact if you want to talk about culture, Japanese did not even differentiate between comics and animated cartoons until they adopted the English term. It was all called "manga"!
In the case of 'anime', it was 'terebi manga'.
Which leads me to "knowing my history." I'm sure you know a lot more about art history than I do, but you are focusing on the other side of what I wrote about. That's fine. Your argument is also valid. But why Tezuka changed his style like you stated is debatable, and I happen to know a little about the culture and history of Japan. I'm not claiming to be an expert on Japan, but I won't give you any false humility and say I don't know shit either.
Also, animation know-how did not come out of thin air and Japan did not invent it. My argument is valid as well.
Tezuka pioneered a style, but completely denying the fact that a major part of the method he devised was to cut costs doesn’t make sense to me. Japan was an occupied country that had been bombed into oblivion and was incredibly poor when all this was getting started. Production was incredibly creative and innovative, but limited resources had a lot to do with it and Tezuka was a genius at working with what he had.
But Tezuka's legacy is in his comics, ideas, and pioneering of the an animation production method that served Japan well.
But I agree with Hayao Miyazaki that Tezuka's method and the people who revere it have been a detriment to the development of animation as a whole.
In any case, while I agree with you on a lot of your points about Japanese design sensibilities, I think a few of your criticisms are a little misdirected because there is a lot a praise for Japanese design and animation in what I wrote. I just don't like it when credit is not given where it is due, because Tezuka - or anyone else for that matter - did not draw inside an airtight, historically relevant and culturally pure creation bubble. There was a large movement in Japan the 70’s by fans and “authorities” alike to deny foreign influence, and now foreign fans are parroting this garbage.
It is very sad that Disney ripped off the Lion King, and Disney has done next to nothing of much value for a long time now, but denying the influence at the time (and that’s not just Disney!) is - in your words – absurd!
Explain why Japan has two Disneylands to zero Tezuka or Toriyama or Go Nagai-lands? Anpanman has a museum (which is cool and great for kids. I’ve been there), but no theme park anywhere near that scale. (Ghibli doesn’t either, but I doubt they would build one anyway. They are extremely strict with their licensing etc.)
Disney characters, and European ones like Moomin (Swedish) and Miffy (Dutch), for example, are just as prominent - if not more so - than Astro Boy, Pokemon (made to sell games and cards, by the way) or Hello frickin' Kitty.
I'm not saying any are better than the others, but pretending Disney and other foreign influences are insignificant and that anime and manga jumped straight out of woodblock prints is revisionist history.
I also think that mainstream anime is a bad representation of Japan, because Japan can do soooooo much better!
I'll have you know that I am also open to all styles of animation, and my praise for Miyazaki and Ghibli has very little to do "a few Disneyesue methodologies". I'm not even sure what you mean by that. If you think that is why I like Ghibli, then you are wrong and, it would seem to me, you are also insulting Ghibli in the same way as you think I'm insulting Tezuka.
Ghibili has NOTHING to do with reminding people of anything American! In fact I see more European influence than anything else.
You are VERY VERY VERY wrong on that point!
What exactly is the "Disney-like thing Miyazaki does", and what do you think are the "culturally specific 'anime' things?
Would you mind explaining what you meant by that?
(Honestly, I hope you will. I’d like to have your opinion.)
P.S. "We as Americans cannot say..." Oh, really? Speak for yourself!
Does the fact that I'm not American and that I speak Japanese and live in Japan mean I can say what I want!? LOL.
Americans have just as much right to an opinion as anyone else on any topic, and Japnaese aren't afraid to say what they think about American things, and Japanese things that Amercians have adopted.
But whatever you may think, I'm not American - and I am far from anti-Japanese (in fact I am often accused of being an apologist) so please don't include me in whatever group you have in your head that you have assumed I am part of.
And I suppose you do?
If so, why the hit and run comment?
Weeeeeak!
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